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Saturday, November 01, 2008

California Prop 8 and Marriage

It seems ironic to me that anyone would begrudge the partnership of a committed relationship between two people in America. This is after all the land of the free, the home of the brave, and the nation that fights for freedom and against oppression on all shores across the world. We are a nation of acceptance of all nationalities, all nations, all immigrants. So why is Gay Marriage a threat to anyone?

If my neighbor or friend that is gay or lesbian, has a long term relationship, and they are happy together, then who am I or anyone else to tell them that they can not have a legally binding marriage? When did it become acceptable for Joe Six pack or Jane Decanter to insert their opinions into your heterosexual relationship lives? And if they did I’m certain it did not have any basis as to the relationship you had or have with your spouse. If it did, then you did not have a lifetime of thought and commitment to the other person in your relationship. Politics and propositions on the ballot have no place in our state or national elections. The bedrooms of America are off limits and none of your damn business on the ballot.

Prop 8 in California is all about making sure that Gay and Lesbian people can never have a “Marriage” so to speak. It is not demanding that all religions have to marry same sex couples by any means. Changing California’s state constitution to literally ban same sex marriage is not by any means from a thinking persons point of view. What it is really about is fear and misunderstanding of our fellow citizens in America. I’ll get into that later but this is what Ballot Pedia has for legal language on the proposition…

Proposition 8 is a proposed amendment to the California constitution which if passed into law would be known as the California Marriage Protection Act. This California ballot proposition will appear on the November 4, 2008 ballot along with eleven other statewide propositions. Proposition 8 is one of four ballot measures which propose to amend the California state constitution and appears on the ballot titled as Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry.

If it passes, it will amend the state constitution to say "Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California".[1]
The electoral contest over Prop. 8 is attracting passionate interest and attention from around the country (and even the world)[2] as it enters its last week.
- BallotPedia.org

This issue really isn’t what the fear mongers are selling to the people of California. Having a Gay or Lesbian married couple living next door is not intruding on your bedroom. Voting for Prop 8 would in fact be invading into everyone’s bedroom. What is next on the proposition voter initiatives questions? You can’t hold hands with your wife in a public square? How about throwing a burkah over your wife and daughters? Any deviant sexual positions not authorized by the state you could be arrested for an imprisoned for. Would Peeping Tom's be sanctioned by Homeland Security? Even if you were two consenting adults.

Gay marriage is not a threat to traditional marriage in any logical terms unless you think you or your spouse may be gay or lesbian. Then that is an issue that you and your spouse need to discuss or hire a damn good lawyer for. Speaking of that, if gay people want to get married then let them, in America today just over 50% of long term relationships break up and the legal community could use the economic benefit. We are after all in an economic recession.

My wife and I have been married (Catholic) for over 14 years and we have had our good times and our bad times. We have survived to date by having one another through a traditional marriage. I lean on her and she on I on a daily basis. Nothing less than that and either one of us could have just said “Screw it!” and walked away. We have been blessed from God above with five baby girls and they do play a major part in our relationship and love for one another. Not once in our 14 years of marriage have we ever feared our gay or lesbian friends influence on our children or our marriage. There has never been reason to do so! It’s simply irrelevant of our personal commitment to one another as a “Married” couple. So why is Gay marriage a threat to anyone else’s relationship as a married couple? This isn’t about invading anyone’s faith, demanding churches wed them because the state constitution says you have too! It does not work that way when our nation has separation of church and state. That is in the United States Constitution. You can’t trump that legal document.

Proposition 8 in California is a disaster and has no bearing on your relationship with your wife or husband. Massachusetts passed a gay marriage law and we have not fallen off the face of the Earth. Matter of fact, it hasn’t changed anything other than the fact that two people can make a lifetime commitment to one another. And yes, the divorce rate is on par with the rest of us that are married in churches and temples and what have you. If anything, we should let the gay community across America see how frustrating or rewarding a true marriage of two people can be. Misery loves company so to speak.

Till death do us part can have many interpretations and if the two people that exchange that vow mean it, then God bless them both for it. Man and woman, or same sex participants in one relationship that joins two together for life.

Common sense has to prevail where fear is used to subjugate your fellow Americans. This is not an issue for states to vote on! This is a human rights issue where people need to see that love sometimes comes in forms that you as an individual do not understand but it is still love between two people. How is this relevant to real issues our states and our nation need to face? It isn’t. Prop 8 should go down in defeat just as all racist legislation should. Enough is enough!

Papamoka

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4 Comments:

Anonymous Glen M said...

If Senator Obama wins this election, the following is what it has taken to get a very questionable, extremely inexperienced, very junior first time Senator past the mark:

1. Senator Obama’s campaign is outspending the Senator McCain’s campaign 4 to 1 or more in some locations. This is due to Senator Obama backing out of an agreement he made with Senator McCain.
2. Senator Obama’s campaign has opened up about 700 offices nation-wide versus less than 100 than Senator McCain’s campaign has opened up.
3. The mainstream media has been completely biased against Senator McCain.
4. Biased organizations, such as ACORN, have received contributions from Senator Obama, have been openly supporting Senator Obama, and are under investigation for committing voter registration fraud in multiple states favoring Senator Obama.
5 An enormous number of biased celebrities have been supporting Senator Obama and speaking out against Senator McCain.
6. Even though Congress is very unpopular, both sides are controlled by the democrats and have been making biased statements against Senator McCain.
7. Senator McCain is disadvantaged because of the unpopularity of the incumbent President.
8. All four of the debate moderators lean to the left and were not 100% fair.

Even with all of the biased and unfair things mentioned above that are running against Senator McCain, Senator Obama only has a narrow lead. Should he not be way out in front? I have heard people state that on the news from both campaigns. That should tell you something. Also, Senator Obama pulled a cheap shot on Senator McCain and the American public in regards to campaign financing. Both campaigns agreed to use public financing during the presidential campaign. At the last moment, Senator Obama backed out of his agreement and took private financing, giving Senator Obama a significant advantage over Senator McCain in financing his campaign. In addition, Senator Obama is not being totally open as to where all his contributions are coming from. But even though Senator Obama took a sucker punch and tricked Senator McCain and all Americans by backing out of his agreement, Senator McCain is keeping with his word and using public financing. This is severely disadvantaging Senator McCain’s campaign financing by putting much lower caps on the amount of money he will have available. This is the reason Senator Obama can outspend Senator McCain 4 to 1. This also shows that Senator Obama does not keep his campaign promises, just like his past campaign promises.

Just imagine what it will be like when you have both the House of Representatives and the Senate controlled by the democrats, and Senator Obama in the Whitehouse signing everything that comes across his desk from them. In other words, the person writing the check will also be the one cashing it. There will be no “checks and balances”, especially if the democrats pick up a few more seats in the Senate and it becomes filibuster-proof, which means they will have a monopoly. Again, there will be no checks and balances. We will have higher taxes, more government, and fewer rights. They have already promised all of those things. You will have a government that will tax the people that are creating the jobs so they can “spread the wealth around”. Who do you think creates the jobs in this country? Have you ever seen a business owned by a poor person? Are they the ones starting small businesses and creating jobs? Obviously not! So we have established the fact that the people that own the small businesses and create the jobs are NOT the poor. So lets talk about what is going to happen when they start taxing the people that do own the small businesses that create the jobs.

So what do you think will happen when they start taxing the small business owners? First, jobs will be lost. They will not be able to afford to keep the same amount of people they have now – they will have to let people go. In addition, they will not be able to expand their businesses and hire more people. The second thing that will happen is that prices will go up. Do you think businesses will not raise the cost of their products and services to offset the extra taxes they have to pay? This should be obvious. The prices will go up on everything and will affect everybody – to include the middle class and the poor. When you go to the grocery store, the food prices will be higher. When you go buy a car, the prices will be higher. When you go to the department store the prices are going to be higher. Put yourself in the shoes of a business owner; if your expenses go up, would you not raise the price of your products to pay for them? Of course you would! And taxes are an expense.

Now lets talk about presidential qualifications. When a federal employee or a member of the military has a need to have access to classified materials, they would need to get a security clearance. A security clearance attempts to certify that an individual is of high moral character and does not pose a security risk. If a federal employee or a member of the military admits to using a dangerous drug, such as cocaine, they will not be eligible for a security clearance. In addition, an admitted cocaine user would not be able to get in the military and if he or she is a federal employee, he or she would be moved to a position of lesser responsibility and not have access to classified materials. Senator Obama has admitted to using cocaine in his book that he wrote. As a candidate for president, should he not be held up to the same standards of a federal employee or a member of our military? As President, he is going to be exposed to an enormous amount of classified materials, have his finger on the nuke button, and be the commander in chief of the strongest military in the world. Would you not want someone in that position that can qualify for a security clearance?

Another point I would like to make is in regards to Senator Obama’s experience, which is a drop in the bucket compared to Senator McCain’s. With the world and the economy in such a delicate position, I cannot imagine why anyone would not want the most experienced person in the Whitehouse. Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, and even Senator Obama’s running mate, Senator Joe Biden, have made statements to the fact that Senator Obama is not experienced enough to be President and that the presidency is not the type of job for on-the-job training. They also said that Senator McCain brings a lifetime of experience to the table. Senator Obama’s running mate, Senator Biden, even said he would even be honored to run “with” his friend John McCain. These individuals are now claiming that they said that during the primaries when they were running against Senator Obama. Does that mean they were lying then, or now? Senator Obama claimed that he had more diverse foreign policy experience because he lived overseas as a kid. Living overseas does not give you foreign policy experience, unless you are an Ambassador, which he was not. If it did, then Senator John McCain would again best Senator Obama’s record since he has lived overseas being a member of the military.

What issue or issues are you going to base your voting decision on? Will it be the economy? National defense? Education? There are so many out there. Because of the current economic situation, a large number of you are going to base your decision on who is best for the economy. I would hope that I have answered this question for you earlier on in this article. Such as pointing out which candidate has promised to raise taxes and spend more reducing jobs and raising the cost to live. But just in case I have not, I have a couple additional items for you to think about. If you look at all of the campaign promises on Senator Obama’s web site, you will see hundreds of them. How is he going to pay for them? I think I answered that already. But, if you add of the costs of all of them, mathematically it is going to cost us a lot more than he will be able to raise in taxes. So many of these are going to be just like so many of his previous campaign promises – they won’t get done. Maybe the economy is not the best issue to use in making a decision for president. What about national defense? In my opinion, if you don’t have a secure nation, the rest of the issues are moot. With Russia and China outspending us two fold to build up their military; with Iran and North Korea toying around with nukes and making threats; with Russia making friends and conducting military exercises not too far from our back door in Venezuela; with Russia helping Iran build nuclear processing material plants; and with the terrorist threat growing in Pakistan (a nuclear country), Afghanistan, Africa, and several other countries throughout the world, I want the most experienced and tested person in that office. Not some junior Senator that has absolutely no experience in national security. The economy is important, but national defense is a must. Remember, if our country is not secure, then the economy means nothing, our freedom is in jeopardy, and our lives as we know them today could easily be drastically changed in a moments notice. Just ask the citizens of the country of Georgia. One last point: Have you see who is openly supporting Senator Obama in the news? Iran and the terrorist groups Hamas and Hezbollah have made public statements that they would prefer Sen. Obama to win. Go figure.

So after reading this, where do you stand? The differences in these two candidates are very apparent. On one hand, you have an individual with many years of applicable “real world” experience, has been a public servant and leader for about 50 years, has a proven record to reduce taxes and government spending, and is dedicated to growing the US economy and jobs. On the other hand, you have an individual with very little experience, questionable associations, has a proven record to increase taxes, government spending, and earmarks, and has promised to increase taxes and government spending. As I said at the beginning of this article, I cannot imagine why anyone in their right mind, after doing a real comparison of the two candidates, would vote for Senator Obama. I admit, he presents himself well and has a good appearance, as long as he has a teleprompter to read from. So the bottom line is what do you want in the next president, appearance or substance?

7:48 AM  
Blogger DB said...

To respond to the post, it is simply the religious right pushing this anti-gay agenda of hate. I hope this prop fails. I am shocked it is polling so close. Sad.

And to Glen, where in the Constitution does it say you must have experience to be the President? Does Palin have legit experience that qualifies her?

Re#1: McCain would have backed out of the agreement as well. He tried. But he shot himself in the foot when he took a loan to save his race last summer. Learn the facts.

#2: Weird. Better organization. Can't hold that against someone.

#3: As long as you guys keep blaming the media, you will never realize how sloppy McCain's campaign has been. Take personal responsibility and look within before blaming everyone else. He went to far to the right to prove his case.

#4: There are right-wing organizations McCain supports who have been busted for voter fraud as well. Don't you find it curious McCain has stopped talking about this?

#5: Seriously? First Amendment. Get yourself a copy of the Constitution. Actors have rights too.

#6: And the congressmen attacking Obama aren't bias?

#7: Welcome to politics. How do you think Gore lost? You honestly think Clinton didn't have anything to do with it?

#8: Cite an example of how the questions posed to all candidates were not fair. I am surprised you didn't mention the "unfair" media asking Palin "hard" question. Give me a break.

I am certainly glad people like you have taken whining about fairness to a level Democrats have not been able to attain. Instead of making excuses why your horse is losing, maybe you should try and understand how horrible a campaign he has run. I was a McCain supporter until he ceased to be McCain. He sold out his values and stands for nothing anymore. He isn't running FOR something, he is running AGAINST something. He is running on the far right agenda which shows he doesn't give a crap about anyone but his "base" that we keep hearing him shoring up.

I actually have imagined what it would be like with a White House, Senate, and House controlled by Dems. I would have been more cautious of it, but I have realized that after the conservatives demonizing segments of our population as unAmerican and unpatriotic, I figure they don't deserve to be running this country. In fact, I hope liberals get on the Supreme Court too. I hope Obama gets a 60 Dem Senate and passes the "Freedom of Choice Act" within his first hundred days. Checks and balances never concerned your people when Republicans controlled every part of the government for 6 of the last 8 years. Look where that got us.

If you are concerned about big government, look at Bush and the bailout. McCain voted for the same bailout and took it a step further by wanting to take over all the bad mortgages. Who is the big government socialist? Conservatives lost the small government argument when Bush took office.

How are business' offsetting their taxes any different than the "consumption tax" Republicans like Huckabee suggested? That is how business' beat the tax. People have the ability to not buy the product or search for a lower price. Supply and demand still drives the free market. If Republicans had the better plan for the economy, we wouldn't be in the situation we are in. Look at the unemployment rate or how many jobs have been lost. If conservatives gave a crap about small business', they would give so many tax breaks to large corporations who run small biz out of town. Never thought about that, huh? How many "mom and pop" shops went under when Wal-Mart moved into your neighborhood offering low prices? Oh yes, they created jobs. With substandard pay that brought the community down. I have realized more and more with this election that Republicans talk a big game about the middle class and small business, but are about as two-faced as it comes.

Regarding security clearances, I will just set you straight as I am a US government employee with a TS clearance. To get a clearance you only get disqualified if you lie about past behaviors. If you are up front and tell the truth, you are fine (as long as you haven't used within the last 5 years). Youthful indiscretions are ok. I know plenty of people who have done stupid shit in their college days who are doing just fine now and have their clearances.

I can't argue against McCain vs Obama's experience. McCain wins. But you add into the fold Palin and Biden and you again have no argument. Plus, McCain's experience won't take us in any direction different than Bush, which is why he is getting smoked right now. Obama certainly will shore up his cabinet with able people to offset this weakness. Same thing Bush did, who had no foreign policy experience other than Mexico. In any case, please explain to me who has more foreign policy experience between McCain and Biden.

How is McCain going to follow through on his promises? With Dems running everything, McCain won't get anything done without getting them to agree to it with substantial concessions. He wouldn't even be able to get a Supreme Court nominee against abortion to save his life. How is McCain's foreign policies (same as Bush) going to make us safer? You can't honestly be serious. We are concentrating on Iraq when we have a growing threat in China right now. We have neglected Afghanistan. Don't push these lines that McCain has a better plan. He will continue this self-destructive pattern simply to save face and appease the far-right.

Oh, and Al Quaeda supports McCain. Oh wait, that is just "reverse psychology". Good thing those douches "supporting" Obama and McCain don't vote in the US!

Like I said, I really like McCain, but he sold out his values when he picked Palin. He put his ambition before this country. He put you and me at risk. Speaking as a person working for our government living overseas, I take that personally. Also, in my personal opinion, he went to far to the right. I refuse to support a candidate who will entertain the hateful agenda of the religious right. Who will engage in the bigotry of the far right. The people who would rather demonize half the country as unAmerican to push their ultra-right social agenda.

McCain screwed himself, despite how much you will try and blame everyone else (or this race) of being not fair. McCain has failed to prove his case. He has failed to rally support. He has failed in proving he is ready and has what it takes to be the President. The far right has hijacked the party and is exactly the reason I left it. Until you guys figure it out, you won't have the support of people like me (who will decide this election in Obama's favor).

Oh, and in case you think I am just some other Obama lackey, look at my blog. Not a single pro-Obama or Biden post. Period. McCain, and especially Palin, are simply that bad. And so is the far-right. You want your values supported in the future, try not making excuses for a party that calls me unAmerican or unpatriotic. Stop making excuses for a party that willfully panders to the religious right agenda of hate. Stop making excuses period. You sound like a Democrat. I guess times have changed.

9:56 AM  
Blogger Michael Boh said...

DISCRIMINATION IS WRONG! This has nothing to do with religion. All Americans have A RIGHT TO HAPPINESS. This is not a "slippery slope" issue, unless you vote for it, because you never know when you might fall victim to discrimination in the future. I find it ironic that the Mormons are its big supporters, since they were so persecuted in the past. Scary! If a person can fall in love with another of their own sex then it is only right to allow them to live together and build a family, as long as they are consenting adults. This is about helping good people create families for themselves, so how can it be bad? You should NOT DISCRIMINATE against them. They re consenting adults, not dogs, and certainly not children. They're also not siblings or polygamists, who are kept apart for important reasons that actually harm individuals and families. Stop making this issue about all that crap. Gay people are here, and they're not going away. They're your neighbor, your coworker, and your friend. Help them live better, more loving, happy lives. It's about their happiness and their rights as citizen's, no more, no less. Please do NOT create a world where some people are less equal than others. MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS and keep our society fair. Thanks - Michael

11:48 AM  
Anonymous Infidel753 said...

Residing in Multnomah county, Oregon, I lived through a similar situation a few years ago when the county government announced that it would begin allowing gays to marry. The feeling of optimism and liberation was palpable -- as was the feeling of gloom and defeat several months later, when a statewide ballot initiative to ban gay marriage was successful, trumpting the county's policy.

But even if Prop. 8 passes, it will not change the ultimate end. This is an idea whose time has come, like the end of the ban on interracial marriage a few decades ago.

As a PUMA (Democrat supporting McCain) I should point out that if Prop. 8 passes, it will show that the problem of opposition to gay marriage is not just a partisan one, since Obama will almost certainly carry California; that is, many of his voters will have voted for Prop. 8 as well.

12:14 PM  

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